IKONA Koi Club

Newest AKCA Club Based At One Koi-Kichi Board!

Cohost Hawley's KCOTA Blog

Steve Childers, Editor of KOI USA reported on Saturday, Feb. 10, 2007 that Internet Koi Club of America (IKONA), which according to him owns the KOISHACK message board forum has received approval to be the latest Internet affiliated AKCA club. Dale Gingerich is the President and Childers himself is the AKCA rep/director. The club’s reportedly involves sharing information about the hobby through the Internet, BUT interestingly according to President Gingerich, who is also the moderator of KOISHACK you have to get written permission from him, IKONA koi club and Koishack.com to quote their mission statement specifically(?). I find it interesting that the editor of KOI USA knew about this all along, but kept it secret. To be the head of the national AKCA magazine and keep secrets relative to the hobby seems strange from a journalistic standpoint.

Hawley may have been the first to report on the potential that the Internet forum seeking AKCA affiliation was instead KOIPHEN, but R.J. Linburg (Mayor Newt) followed up with more details along the same line. It will be interesting to see how many other forums such as possibly Koiphen, Koibito, and possibly even NewtCity might consider AKCA membership. On February 7 Linburg reported on his NewtCity site that, “Word is that Stephen has applied for club status for Koiphen...this should be interesting. Another 'nationals' show in the works?” He also wrote, “Word's just come my way that Stephen has applied for non-profit status for Koiphen. With it, I guess he figures he can broker fish through his site and not be breaking the 'no dealers' rule and so can show his fish. The guy sure has a burning desire to win some more $6 trophies and gain the admiration of his flock, doesn't he. I'm also told there's no way in he-- he'll get AKCA club status for his forum...too bad, so sad!”

Heck, maybe Linburg is on their board as he wrote today after the news was out, "Sorry I couldn't clue you in long ago, fool, but I was sworn to secrecy until this became official." Who would have sworn this man with is irreverent message board to secrecy about IKONA koi club? And why according to Linburg’s train of thought wouldn’t Koiphen get AKCA status if they qualify as a nonprofit? What club could not qualify if they are non-profit? Likewise, it will be interesting to see how many of the pros that lead Koishack like Koibito move into the leadership of the club and are involved in shows they might sponsor.

James Reilly asked right away upon the announcement on the IKONA forum Koishack if professionals would be involved. One involved in IKONA leadership, Dihn Nyugen offered that there would be a professional membership level, but dealers and other professionals could not hold office or vote. It will be interesting to see how this pans out as even in the functions of the newly formed ZNA NorCal there is professional involvement in chairs of the upcoming Young Fish Show, etc. Plus, that club so close to the long standing controversies of ZNA So Cal Chapter allowing Nancy and Frank Morales, a couple of professionals to compete and win, which results in more questions for inquiring minds wondering “what is going on?”

As IKONA supposedly owns KOISHACK as a business venture and profit center apparently that has actively sought to prevent the discussion of professional involvement in AKCA and ZNA clubs and shows this should be interesting to follow. How was the president and rest of board of IKONA selected and elected and how will they be in the future? Was it formed first privately and at some point will go public as one would expect of a non-profit under the bylaws of their parent organization AKCA? Will IKONA membership be controlled as is the KOISHACK forum at the whim of the Dale the president and moderator? Will the effort by KOISHACK TO generate revenue for IKONA as the Koi-Bito forum similarly operates bleed over into IKONA’s other activities? Will this first truly Internet club aside from ZNA Southern Koi Association serve the AKCA board’s and average hobbyist’s expectation and be inclusive of the broadest set of voices that the Internet allows including R&G enthusiasts, water gardeners generally, goldfish fanciers, etc? Or will it be a continuation of the existing Koishack tendency to be centered on the interests of a much narrower group than are represented by koi hobbyists that surf the web from around the globe?

I've not seen where they have a club domain name available at this time. The acronym of IKONA is already operated by other companies in the dot.com and dot.net format. All domains for “internetkoiclubofamerica” are available in .com through .biz for now. They could be planning on running much of their operation out of their KOISHACK domain such as KOISHACK.org, which Dinh Nguyen currently owns.

Initial Membership as posted on the Internet:
-Scott & Kyleen Barns
-Sandy & Mike Campbell
-Tim & Pam Cash
-Dan Cheng
-Steve & Cheryl Childers
-Cindy & Charlie Coombs
-Lynn Dudish & Andy Dudish
-Dale & Patti Gingerich
-Dale & Mary Ellen Johnson
-Dinh Nguyen
-Lynda & John Pope
-William & Colleen Story

Congratulations to IKONA koi club!

Additional Comments:

Initial comments from KOIPHEN leaders seems to be a sense that their idea was high jacked by the KOISHACKERS who for the most part were Koiphen operatives running committees of the national show until the fallout from that Koiphen National Koi Show, which unraveled. Remember also that Stephen Height posted on the IPPCA message board that there was more to the story of why the national show shutdown than was represented by Childers and others. IKONA koi club’s president has suggested that one of the cochairs of the Southern Koi Expo should announce some other big news, which suggests possible involvement with that event and possibly a move toward a greater regional koi show and possibly renewed interest in a national koi show representation. It would appear considering the support for a national koi event by these players who were a part of the Koiphen National Koi Show organization that they have found another avenue to press foward with their agenda. They have the core group of judges and quasi-pro operatives in their camp now and can move amongst the vendors many who actually run AKCA koi clubs and with moderator influence from both KOISHACK and KOIBITO move toward a base of power and influence within the new clubs that were formed over the last year in the S.East and through their influence at KOI USA and within the leadership of AKCA itself. In reflection KOIBITO along with Koiphen has been used as a base of networking and influence that these operatives in IKONA koi club and KOISHACK may now build upon with the IKONA koi club and Koishack.

Nice Work and congrats! It isn't particularly democratic in the broader sense of allowance for open debate or representative of the widest diversity and reaches of the koi, goldfish, and water garden hobby, but is a nice piece of political operation.
We need more koi club unity on the internet that is inclusive of the broader water garden hobby, but I’m not convinced the IKONA koi club organization is the best approach. The IPPCA message board has been the best moderated forum I've found to date and is habitated by caring people that want and welcome everyones voices. That is not the case at IKONA koi club's Koishack.

Additional Comments:

Now IKONA Koi Club Rep Steve Childers, who is also the editor of KOI USA plays off the secrecy suggested by the president of his club and others such as R.J. Linburg (Newt of NewtCity) who claimed he was "sworn to secrecy." Childers also claims this establishment of the Koishack operatives new Internet Koi Club in no way relates to KOIPHEN. Yet, Stephen Height has stated otherwise as his organization posted their interest in becoming an AKCA koi club and establishing the Internet Club of America. This was prior to these IKONA koi club/ Koishackers left Koiphen after the Koiphen National Show committees they were a part of shutdown last year. Childers claims their IKONA organizing was not a secret as they were organized as a non-AKCA club(?) providing friendship awards at the Atlanta and Charlotte shows. Note some in those clubs are involved in the leadership of this new club. Where has there been anything written about this and shared with the koi-kichi world prior to today? While Childers is quick to note he has only been at the helm of KOI USA for a short time he has a website at KOI USA to share fast breaking news relevant to the koi-kichi hobby if he was sincere in wanting to be a provider of neutral and relevant information about the koi hobby versus serving as a power broker of sorts in his other roles in the koi keeping community.

Childers wrote on the IKONA koi club Koishack forum on Saturday Feb. 10, 2007, "I didn't realize there was a "competition" of sorts. Here is a little history on IKONA (taken from a post I made on Koi Shack). A little history of IKONA.
In mid June, those of us that helped to start Koi Shack decided to also form a Koi Club. An internet club had been talked about for some time by various groups and in fact the Southern Koi Association (ZNA) is also losely based on internet memberships. On June 25th, 2006, and after many emails back and forth amongst members, we selected the name of IKONA Koi Club based upon, "Internet Koi Of North America." This was all taking place behind the scenes as "The Shack" got up and running. IKONA was first announced to others outside of the club when we presented our first Friendship Award at the Atlanta 2006 Koi show in September. Many folks were present from many different clubs and even other internet groups. IKONA also presented a Friendship Award at the Charlotte 2006 show in November as well, again with many from other clubs and internet group(s).
Before seeking AKCA affiliation, we wanted to make sure all of our "I"s were dotted and "T"s crossed. We first were presented to the AKCA board for affiliation at the January Board meeting. Being a tad different than other clubs, the Board wanted to make sure that they did their "Due Diligence" and check for such things as insurance coverage prior to taking their vote. Steve"

Steve Childer's Reply on the IPPCA.com forum to my comments above:

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

Now the editor of KOI USA plays off the secrecy suggested by the president of the club and others such as Newt who claimed he was "sworn to secrecy" and claims this in no way related to KOIPHEN, which had openly discussed starting the Internet Club of America when he and other former members of the Koiphen National Show committees decided to do the same secretly last summer, but wait! It supposedly was not a secret as they were organized as a non-AKCA club(?) providing friendship awards at the Atlanta and Charlotte shows. Aren't some in those clubs wrapped in the leadership of this new club? Where has there been anything written about this and shared with the koi-kichi world prior to today? While Childers is quick to note he has only been at the helm of KOI USA for a short time he has a website to share fast breaking news relevant to the koi-kichi hobby if he was sincere in wanting to be a provider of information versus a power broker of sorts in is other roles in the koi keeping community.

Well, well, well, KCOTA. The was no secrecy, no hidden agendas, just a group of Koi hobbyists who do not live close to existing koi clubs yet wanted to be part of one. Seems you got your "facts" mixed up and thought it was Koiphen and it wasn't and now you seem to be attempting to "spin" it as a viel of secrecy? As I stated, many were present when friendship awards were given at 2 shows last fall. Sorry you weren't there but that doesn't make it a secret either. Also, as for Dale's statement of not copying his posts, could it be that certain individuals tend to "spin" things instead of simply reporting the facts? How about the innuendo of forming the club prior to AKCA affiliation? Well, have you ever formed a Koi club before? AKCA as you have been repeatedly been informed is a group of AFFILIATED koi clubs....in other words, from a technical standpoint a koi club has to be formed first, and then seek affiliation to the AKCA, which is EXACTLY what IKONA did. As for Newt? Yep, he knew. He was sworn to secrecy not to tell you that you reported the story WRONG until after the vote. The fact that the club existed or sought AKCA affiliation was never a secret.

You apparently never asked anyone who the actual internet club was that was seeking affiliation. IKONA is for its members scrutiny, not yours.

As for Koiphen? What they do is up to them. Yes, many of us during the K1 show "discussed" AKCA status but the powers to be decided not to seek such back at that time (fall 05 - spring 06).....not that it is any business of your either.

Quote:

Nice Work and congrats! It isn't particularly democratic or above board, but a nice piece of political operation
This is one of the few places you will find such comments about what is going on amongst these media platforms as for instance they have banned me from posting such questions and statements on their forums and will likely squash any questioning even as an AKCA member not for profit club.

Not democratic? LOL Let's see, the IKONA members developed their bylaws and voted on such. Applied for AKCA affiliation and the AKCA Board voted on such. How the heck is that not Democratic? Because YOU didn't know, or couldn't do the research to get your facts straight or have a vote?

As for Newt getting it wrong? It was based on your innaccurate reporting!
I've read a lot of your "Fiction" here on this forum. Needless to say many on the 4 boards that you have been "censored" on feel the same way. How can one trust the accuracy of much in what you write?

I just thought I'd drop my personal (private hobbyist) 2 cents in on this "nuetral" forum.

Steve Childers

Hawley reply to Childers:

schildkoi@aol.com wrote:

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject:
Well, well, well, KCOTA. The was no secrecy, no hidden agendas, just a group of Koi hobbyists who do not live close to existing koi clubs yet wanted to be part of one. Seems you got your "facts" mixed up and thought it was Koiphen and it wasn't and now you seem to be attempting to "spin" it as a viel of secrecy?

Don't you state later in your comments here that Newt was sworn to secrecy? There is your "veil" of secrecy.

Quote:

As I stated, many were present when friendship awards were given at 2 shows last fall. Sorry you weren't there but that doesn't make it a secret either. Also, as for Dale's statement of not copying his posts, could it be that certain individuals tend to "spin" things instead of simply reporting the facts?

Sure, I can appreciate his motivation, but Google cache's the material all the time. Why is anyone else not given the same benefit? You are supportive of Freeedom of Information as the Editor of KOI USA aren't you? I know you work principally in the transportation industry, but surely your journalism training supports the premise that suggests those that want every word they post on an Internet forum to be essentially copywrited is ludicrous. When are you going to report the facts about Koiphen Nationals as Height has said there is more to the story than you who has constantly stated was caused by his personal problems? You have pushed that claim constantly when it was not according to Height the whole story? Are you sworn to secrecy? Why did you wait to report this matter that now Height says was a stab in the back? Timing is a double edged sword since you surely benefit in some regards, but you all did start this after his expressed interest and after Koiphen Nationals caused the split between your group that now run KOISHACK/IKONA didn't you? Is one or everyone to take your word as gospel considering you are involved in these things and put aside Heights? Why should they? Sure you have Linburg to cuss and insult him and chime in occassionally to offer credence to his comments, but based on what is your version and that of those associated with your forum the final word on such things? I know I get it wrong sometimes, often times or however you would care to "spin it," but so does everyone else. Prove your case on its merits if you can.

Quote:

How about the innuendo of forming the club prior to AKCA affiliation? Well, have you ever formed a Koi club before? AKCA as you have been repeatedly been informed is a group of AFFILIATED koi clubs....in other words, from a technical standpoint a koi club has to be formed first, and then seek affiliation to the AKCA, which is EXACTLY what IKONA did. As for Newt? Yep, he knew. He was sworn to secrecy not to tell you that you reported the story WRONG until after the vote. The fact that the club existed or sought AKCA affiliation was never a secret.

No innuendo, but fact STEVE. "Sworn to secrecy" says the Editor of KOI USA, lol! That speaks for itself. Who made him swear? What is his official capacity for you koi-kichi high-enders? Why did Linburg (Newt) go on insulting Height this week about Koiphen trying to become an AKCA club and supposedly their seeking tax exempt status if he knew it was your club's koi-kichi forum? If what you say now is true then was Linburg put up to some sort of dis-information campaign that you were associated with and will later report as a way to keep me over at the IPPCA kichi-forum from finding out? Is this poor retired old Vietnam vet who lives on a fixed income and who was kicked out of that marina in the St. Pete area who sold his boat and supposedly was moving into a manufactured home after losing his dream due to the greed of others now being used as a pawn in some of your groups hidden agenda? You make this way too easy,...almost as easy as pulling teeth as koidoc might say, but of course it doesn't pay as well, but I'm cheap.

Quote:

As for Koiphen? What they do is up to them. Yes, many of us during the K1 show "discussed" AKCA status but the powers to be decided not to seek such back at that time (fall 05 - spring 06).....not that it is any business of your either.

Was this before, during, or after Koiphen Nationals? As an insider to this story you might not appreciate the reason for asking, but since most all of the KOISHACK/IKONA group were in positions running Koiphen Nationals it is important to understand the timeline of the various events relative to one another.

Quote:

Cool! Your club has bylaws? Where are they? As for claiming I couldn't do the research remember Mr. Editor the secrecy part you talked about that Linburg was sworn to. How many others were sworn to secrecy? Likewise, you misunderstand (although I've never known you to acknowledge such), but what I'm saying is that KOISHACK/IKONA are not likely to be democratic in their operation. Heck, do you think your tone here with a guy asking questions sounds particularly inviting of new members? Can any one use your forum(it is your forum afterall as KOISHACK is owned by the club you are the AKCA rep for) and send in dues even if you don't want them posting on your board? Will people continue to be censored if they ask questions about pros showing in ZNA shows? Will the general membership under the bylaws have the right to determine how KOISHACK operates, which pros get to talk up their products and services and their shows, etc?

Quote:

As for Newt getting it wrong? It was based on your innaccurate reporting!
I've read a lot of your "Fiction" here on this forum. Needless to say many on the 4 boards that you have been "censored" on feel the same way. How can one trust the accuracy of much in what you write?

How did Linburg get it wrong if he knew and was acting on his sworn secrecy? That doesn't make sense although I always get a kick out of your innuendo that you are a better writer and reporter than myself. As for these 4 boards I've been censored on one of them is your club board with the same operators as another two of the boards and then of course Carlson banned me on Eric Johnson's board because he claimed I caused you guys problems on your boards, even though I was defending Johnson against the claims of posters on your associated forums. I guess he just kinda hangs on in that forum till maybe something better comes along and doesn't really care who insults Johnson or try to get the facts out one way or the other. Plus, I believe in pulling up cached google searches on your posts around the Internet I've seen where you have been censored, etc. Is that some sort of reflection on your judgement? I guess now that you are in the leadership of the group that owns the KOISHACK board you don't have that to worry about there right? lol! Or will it be more democractic? Will banning be a IKONA board decision or a monarchical approach as has been done up to now with people such as your club president doing the deed as is the lay of the land at koi shows where even in ZNA shows they can let pros show and win (statements like that got me banned from your forum and KOIBITO). Not here though Surprised

) Gotta love a pro group that allows unfettered discussion of the koi hobby in the greater context of the water garden hobby where literally millions upon millions of koi are sold every year far more than 30 Judges could ever judge in competition. It really is about growing the hobby, not just the influence of a select few.

BTW: STEVE your buddy Linburg did get this a little wrong today on one of those threads you posted on, "Johnny's Mommy is dying of cancer, for the record. I wonder if that's why he's living at home...to grab what he can when she passes?" (edited out "...to grab what he can when she passes?" at « Last Edit: Today at 09:36:32 PM by Mayor Newton »)
Mother is doing fine although we did have a scare with her cancer. I've had it also, but though we have few other close family members and I've got no brothers or sisters we try to take care of each other. I try not to get to personal as your friends do with me. I'll stick to the issues involving the hobby even if your team plays ball this way STEVE.

Hawley's further reply to Childers:

schildkoi@aol.com wrote:

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject:
As for Newt getting it wrong? It was based on your innaccurate reporting!
I've read a lot of your "Fiction" here on this forum. Needless to say many on the 4 boards that you have been "censored" on feel the same way. How can one trust the accuracy of much in what you write?
I just thought I'd drop my personal (private hobbyist) 2 cents in on this "nuetral" forum.
Steve Childers

STEVE you often criticize my writing and I'd like to share this piece with you and Linburg who will surely find the means to personally attack and insult me for it, but this is a piece I wrote a decade ago that I managed to win a second place award in a Southeastern regional j-school competition with. This was my first return trip to college after being out for more than a decade after getting married and having four children (they are grown now and live in Miami). Anyhow it is written in the voice of a child.

Two weeks before Christmas my mom took in my dad who, after beating up his third wife, apparently had no where else to turn. That was one present Santa could have kept.
Before my parents divorced twenty years ago, dad worked as a heavy equipment mechanic. At 6 feet tall and weighing about 220 pounds he was a strong man. My mom, at 5 feet and 120 pounds, was no match for him in a fistfight. His next two wives were no match either.
Some of my most vivid childhood memories are of dad beating mom off walls and wondering when he would start on me. Drunken stupor's ruled the weekends. Dad would start drinking liquor heavy on Friday night and commence to argue with mom shortly thereafter. It seemed to be a ritual that was a part of the routine torment that plagued my childhood.
I blamed dad for the attacks and mom for perpetuating the situation with her words. I figured that if she hadn't set him off with certain remarks or responded combatively to his belligerence, I might have been spared her screams of pain and cries for help as he brutally beat her. If she was brave enough to speak her mind she should have been brave enough to get us out of there.
While other eight-year-old children were developing normal social skills, I, on one occasion, stood in my bedroom with a knife wanting to run into the kitchen and stop my dad from punching mom. The fact that I had considered such a thing is a sad commentary on domestic violence.
This abusive strain in an otherwise likable dad wasn't reserved for mother. He would often endow me with his loving lashes. Typically, he would focus his attacks on me in areas such as the back, arms and legs where it would be difficult for a schoolteacher to spot. I remember wishing I had a brother or sister so he would have some other kid to beat up.
Back then, in the 1970s and early 1980s, enforcement of laws governing domestic violence were nearly nonexistent. Today that has changed. In many communities if the police are called to respond to a domestic violence incident one or both of the individuals will be arrested. No longer are police used as referees, then told that no charges will be filed by the abused participant. These new laws not only benefit the police, but also children who may be witnessing adults on their worst behavior.
My mom was one of the tough ones who wouldn't call the police. She was actually afraid he would kill here if she did. He threatened to kill us so often that it was thought of as ordinary.
My memory is awash with visual images of dad's gritting teeth and his face flush with rage as he would pommel me with his log-like arms. Often times he was angry about something that happened to him at work not so much what I had or had not done.
I remember lying in bed, trembling, as I listened to him striking mom. Then she came in the room and told me to stay in bed. "Everything will be okay," she said. "I'm going to leave for a while." That meant, to my dismay, that I had to stay with him! She ran out of the house, while he loaded his rifle and commenced to play the drunken neighborhood commando.
No one died or suffered long term physical damage from these incidents. The damage to the psyche, however, is irrefutable. Like the tortured victims of war crimes, victims of domestic violence often survive. Yet, they do so with scars that change their actions and attitudes forever. Some may allow hatred to take over their lives while others dedicate themselves to helping other victims.
Increasingly, women and children have gained human rights and are no longer considered the property of their husbands and fathers. And divorce laws have been liberalized to allow no fault termination of bad relationships. There is still a need, however, to focus attention on the problems associated with domestic violence.
Though I wouldn't strike a spouse or other women, I fear that I could take advantage of the freedom parents have to strike their children. While many people believe that sparing the rod spoils the child if they were that child they might question their authority to pick up a rod against anyone.
Nothing struck home more for me these holidays about the consequences of domestic violence than the reality that no matter how much I would like too I can never forgive my father for what he has done. If you or someone you know is being physically abused urge them to get help. There are countless resources available to assist victims of domestic violence. Break the cycle and the silence.

You know STEVE I started writing as a sort of therapy after my divorce and having returned to school more than a decade ago. Some love my writing and others hate it. I like doing it because it is in me not so much because I believe it is good or bad. I like to find good things, which I do and have presented for years now about the hobby and if I suspect something is fishy I pursue that also. It is that simple for me, BUT I don't believe all is well and rosy just because someone tells me to believe it. Yea, I have trust issues. See above for reasons. Very Happy

Childers reply to several other posters comments (see IPPCA.com message board/ Feb. 10, 07)

Quote:

Hi Steve, This does get confusing as you are a Koi Judge and a 'private hobbyist'...this is a small example in my eyes as to what causes confusion with the clubs, rules, status, titles, etc...you are still a Koi judge correct? I am not being a smarta$$ here rather for those who don't know you or do and that last comment can lead some to think you're just a hobbyist.

Yes Nancy, I am still an AKCA certified koi judge. I am also Editor of KOI USA, and I am also a private koi hobbyists, each with their own perspectives. As a Koi judge, I speak as a judge when judging or at judging related functions. As Editor, I speak as such through the magazine or at related functions. If asked about either of those areas on the internet, I will answer accordingly and sign my posts accordingly. But just because I hold those positions, both of which are voluntary without compensation I might add, does not mean I have given up my rights as a "hobbyist" or my opinions as such. Many such as KCOTA would attempt to censor people who hold positions by using those positions against them when they are irrelevant to the topic at hand. Not exactly "cricket" as the Brits would say.

KOTCAs writings are typically squewed and also typically lack substantial factual basis as it relates to koi. His mis-reporting of the internet club seeking AKCA affiliation is a small example. He keeps stating there was a shroud of secrecy. There wasn't. The club has existed for over 7 months and has publically presented friendship awards. Newt was only sworn to "secrecy" concerning KTOCAs innaccurate reporting. As for his writings regarding his mother and father? I fail to see the relevance other than an attempt at some sympathy?

He has a tendancy to "take exception" with others yet when others take exception with his writings and the innaccuracies of such, he just likes to "spin" it and avoid the realization that his stories in this acase his internet koi club/AKCA affiliation story) are innaccurate and more fiction than fact.

He asks if I am a supporter of freedom of information? Yes, I am, to those with a vested interest in the case of a club and its workings. In this case KCOTA has no vested interest since he is not a member and will doubtfully ever be one. A Club is not a government entity and thus, no such "right" or "duty" as it relates to freedom of information exists. Why should anyone share any information with a "reporter" who cannot accurately reflect facts as they are submitted?

He also stated:

Quote:

Yes KCOTA, you do get it wrong.....and my perception is more often wrong than right. How many times must you be told that the Koiphen Koi Nationals were cancelled by Stephen Height for "Personal Reasons"? That means HIS PERSONAL REASONS! The Koiphen Koi Nationals did NOT cause a split between myself nor the group that started koishack and koiphen. You are once again WRONG. No matter how many times you report things innaccurately wishing them to be accurate, the facts will not change and you will still be WRONG.

As for waiting? As the IKONA AKCA rep, I posted the acceptance by the AKCA within 1 hour of being informed of such. very late on 2/9/07. Today (2/10/07) I added a little history about the club and its forming. First you try and dream up a consiracy about secracy, then when one is forthright and attempting to give more if, you attempt to "spin" it once again as another conspiracy?

As for Koishack and banning? Although the board is "owned/supported" by IKONA, the administrators make the decisions on who gets banned. To my knowledge KCOTA, you are perhaps the only person to date, to which I did not have anything to do with since I take no personal part in administering the board. Actually as I recall, you were "suspended" for a period of 10 days, basically due to your inability to play well with others. In other words, you did it to yourself, much like you did on 3 other internet koi boards.

I just thought I'd pop in and set the record straight since it got twisted. I will return y'all to regular programming. Any further questions can be directed to me at: schildkoi@aol.com

Steve Childers
private koi hobbyist

Hawley reply to Childers:

Quote:

KOTCAs writings are typically squewed (sp) and also typically lack substantial factual basis as it relates to koi. His mis-reporting of the internet club seeking AKCA affiliation is a small example. He keeps stating there was a shroud of secrecy. There wasn't.

STEVE you stated people were sworn to secrecy and now claim there was no secrecy. If you go back to the KOIPHEN forum that you used to be a part of and for some reason discontinued participation in you will find it documented that indeed KOIPHEN was indeed noted as being interested in becoming an AKCA club and the guy you claim was sworn to secrecy (by someone) claimed they were seeking non profit status. So, how exactly am I mis-reporting? And what are your actual credentials as an authority on reporting or as an editor anyhow? Your position was provided due to your stature as a koi-kichi board pundit and judge not due to any journalism skills or academic training. Isn’t that correct STEVE, old buddy? Thank goodness for the publishers as they can run the thing without a figurehead.

Quote:

He has a tendancy(sp) to "take exception" with others yet when others take exception with his writings and the innaccuracies(sp) of such, he just likes to "spin" it and avoid the realization that his stories in this acase (sp) his internet koi club/AKCA affiliation story) are innaccurate(sp) and more fiction than fact.

Oh STEVE I didn't know koi-kichi also meant red-herring.

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He asks if I am a supporter of freedom of information? Yes, I am, to those with a vested interest in the case of a club and its workings. In this case KCOTA has no vested interest since he is not a member and will doubtfully ever be one. A Club is not a government entity and thus, no such "right" or "duty" as it relates to freedom of information exists. Why should anyone share any information with a "reporter" who cannot accurately reflect facts as they are submitted?

Your saying I can't join right? What was the mission of the club again to be inclusive and grow the hobby or a clique? You think you grow the hobby better than me STEVE then prove it somehow if you can. And your lack of j-school classes are showing again Steve as Freedom of Information in the journalistic sense is not only for those with a vested interest. The public right to know concept seems to be escaping you sir. As for your claims that I’m inaccurate in my reporting that is no excuse for you as Editor of KOI USA to write stories about shimi removal versus using the ink to share with the hobby a possible new direction with a HUGE Internet club on a forum in competition with other major existing forums one of which was interested in being an AKCA club.

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Yes KCOTA, you do get it wrong.....and my perception is more often wrong than right.

Okay, I might agree with that.

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How many times must you be told that the Koiphen Koi Nationals were cancelled by Stephen Height for "Personal Reasons"? That means HIS PERSONAL REASONS! The Koiphen Koi Nationals did NOT cause a split between myself nor the group that started koishack and koiphen. You are once again WRONG. No matter how many times you report things innaccurately (sp) wishing them to be accurate, the facts will not change and you will still be WRONG.

Height reported the fact differently here himself STEVE. And no matter how many times you say the former koiphen folks that started koishack and those who are charter members of IKONA who were on committees of KOIPHEN Nationals including yourself didn’t do this in no way relative to your split with Koiphen it just won’t add up.

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As for waiting? As the IKONA AKCA rep, I posted the acceptance by the AKCA within 1 hour of being informed of such. very late on 2/9/07. Today (2/10/07) I added a little history about the club and its forming. First you try and dream up a consiracy(sp) about secracy(sp), then when one is forthright and attempting to give more if, you attempt to "spin" it once again as another conspiracy?

What dream of a conspiracy and secrecy? You stated yourself Linburg was sworn to secrecy. Which written statements by you “who is also” the editor of KOI USA and an AKCA judge should we believe? BTW, I also do the Koi Club of the Air, but Todo doesn’t always agree with me. You see the difference between our disclaimers is I don’t disavow the other things I do. But, I don’t do adult films and then stand Sunday morning behind the pulpit preaching against sin. Maybe that is just plain over your head, but I think others get it. I've suggested all along there is a conflict of interest in your antics and role as the editor of KOI USA, but as a figurehead indeed there is not a conflict. As an editor in the journalistic realm there is. On the other hand, I'm a talk show guy. Where is my conflict?