Leroy Taba on the Hawaii Goldfish and Carp Association

Leroy Taba, representing the Hawaii Goldfish and Carp Association opened conversation about their club with the traditional island aloha. Though it might be a controversial point for some the leaders of the Hawaii Goldfish and Carp Association state that their club is the oldest koi club dating back to 1959 predating the club traditions of Japan. According to Taba, after the Japanese saw the Hawaii Goldfish and Carp Association in operation they went back and started their own koi organization in Japan. When asked if he was joking Taba noted, “No, I am serious. A lot of people want to change our name to Hawaii Koi Club or something else and we say no this name goes back to 1959. So we have to hold on to it.” As an AKCA club they meet every few months or once a quarter. They are located on Oahu where most of their members likewise reside. Meetings are usually held in a church. Steeped in tradition many of the older Hawaiian families maintain koi ponds, but they tend to covet their privacy in paradise, which makes putting on a pond tour difficult as with that for the AKCA Seminar a few years ago. The hobby is growing in Hawaii with more diversity of people getting into it besides those traditionally interested of Japanese heritage. Besides the well-known natural beauty of Hawaii many of the hotels and parks have koi in their ponds and water gardens further enhancing aesthetics that continue to make Hawaii a top international tourist destination. Visit the Hawaii Goldfish and Carp Association at www.hawaiigoldfishandkoi.org for more information.

Question to Readers at Koi-Bito.com forums:

Did Leroy Get it right about them being the oldest?

HGCA appears to be the oldest hobbyist koi club. There were Japanese producer organizations prior to 1959 although it is not known (by me) if these same producer organizations still exist today.

Cut and pasted below is some info from _Koi Talk - Newsletter of the Hawaii Goldfish and Carp Association_, June, 2005.

"It would be interesting to document some of the early history of the Hawaii Goldfish and Carp Association. Below are some notes from the files of ZNA in Japan. After being translated and passed through several hands, the information may not be correct or may be incomplete. If you can add to or correct any of this, please let us know...

According to Doctor Takeo Kuroki, the first chairman of ZNA, koi were first exported from Japan in 1938 when one hundred specimens were sent to the International World’s Fair in San Francisco. For obvious reasons, the Second World War then effectively ended all exporting of nishikigoi.

In 1947 the staff of a Japanese fishery society visited the Yamakoshi area in Japan and decided to promote export of Nishikigoi. A few months later, there was the second export of koi from Japan when a group of 2,500 fish were sent to Hawaii. The Japanese dealer, Koichi Inouye, probably participated in these transactions. The fate of these koi is not
well-documented, but a Japanese koi dealer named Kaneko noted that there were koi in the ponds surrounding the Pagoda Hotel in Honolulu in 1951.

Thus, it is not surprising that Hawaii is the home of the oldest koi club (our very own Hawaii Goldfish and Carp Association) and a very early series of exhibitions and koi shows.

The first koi show in Hawaii was between 1959 and 1961. The manager of Miyakoya koi outlet in Japan took part in the 1961 show. A dealer named Konishi, form the Hiroshima area, started selling koi in Hawaii in 1962. He became acquainted with Mits Nakamura, who lived in Hawaii, and Nakamura did much to promote Konishi’s business.

The first ZNA All Japan Nishikigoi Show was held in 1968. As it happens, the Grand Champion at this show was owned by Mits Nakamura. There was evidently some controversy about the fact that someone form Hawaii won
the first ZNA show.

Kuroki noted that he was invited to judge the HGCA show in 1964. After observing how much our members were enjoying the show, Kuroki regretted that there was no similar type of koi organization in its birthplace, Japan. Upon returning to Japan, he appealed to koi keepers there to form a similar koi appreciation organization. The West Japan Nishi Nippon Airinkai was created shortly thereafter and the name was soon changed to Zen Nippon Airinkai (ZNA) which we know today.

In November of 1965, the Hawaii Goldfish and Carp Association became a sister club to ZNA (before the name change). A total of seven ZNA judges came to Hawaii in those early years to assist with shows.

Since that time, ZNA has been reorganized into districts and chapters. Hawaii would be in the USA District. Presently, ten US-based koi clubs are listed as chapters in the USA District of ZNA. However, the Hawaii Goldfish and Carp Association is not one of them."

-ste vehok

Would you like assistance checking your sources? Is there a reason to doubt Mr. Taba? Seems not.

Thank you Stevie Hop for another of your many dusty nuggets of good stuff. There is no way I would hope to keep my brain alive if I were living in Paradise.

Repost responses? Where? Another board?

Have you encountered some intolerable profanity here? Yukky.

You stimulate so many questions, John. I eagerly await meeting you in Orlando.

Mickey the windowman

This is consistent with my memory of an article in the early issues of Nichirin. There were koi shows in Japan far before, but not as part of a club structure. ZNA provided the structure and standards that allowed for development of nishikigoi to the levels we see today. There is good reason to revere the memory of Dr. Kuroki for the unstinting leadership he provided in creating the hobby as we now know it.

Mike M (Orlando, Fl)

Mike, among some of my treasured mementos of the hobby is a signed
letter from the good doctor after i wrote him in respose to a request as to
how he could make their magazine better.

In all my studying and research/reading it is my understanding that
what has been stated in this thread about the hawaiin club being the
oldest is "spot on"....

Dick Benbow

That is a treasure, Dick. ....In electronic Rinko there is often a page showing the photo of a "Unique Koi". It always makes me think of Kuroki (and that Rinko was linked with ZNA before Nichirin was founded).

Mike M (Orlando, Fl)

Wow, now I'm really getting some goosebumps...the mention of Hawaii koi shows in the 1960's and koi trophies. My dad and uncle had also started in the hobby at an early age. In the early 60's They bought a number
of baby koi (2"-3") for a few cents and raised them in a pretty good size pond with filter 10'x16'x30" deep (built by my grandfather). Both my father (19 yrs at the time) and his brother (15 yrs) in 1964 had entered two koi (bought locally) that they had grown out to tosai and nisai age. My uncle to this day, still has those two koi trophies. I try to
look at them everytime we visit my uncle.

I was born in 1966, and I still have memories of playing around that concrete koi pond (more like falling into the pond while trying to hand feed the HUGE Yellow Ogon they kept). I still remember opening my eyes
under that pond water seeing the koi rush around me trying to get at the food in my hand....what a traumatic experience...I can still hear the koi sucking...hahaha.

Akai-San

I'm not so sure as, ",...it is a Japanese hobby to begin with;they invented it, set the rules and standards for it,..." according to Ron clearly implies Japan not Japanese Americans in Hawaii. Just as the Hawaiian Club has the distinction of being the oldest club it would seem then that they set the rules and standards. Interestingly, this all came about after Douglas Macarthur oversaw the occupation of Japan and establishment of a more democratic system from 1945-51. Who established the rules first set the standard. Whether or not the roots of koi-club-kichi is to be properly documented as in Hawaii or some pre-WWII Japanese imperial tradition is an important question to answer for a variety of reasons.

John Hawley

Words do have meaning and I appreciate literal intent in relation to facts and accuracy when evaluating something that I would care to publish. Consider again if you would, “…it is a Japanese hobby to begin with;they invented it, set the rules and standards for it,..." according to Ron. Steve consider again the part where Ron states, "set the rules and standards for it,..." Steve the logic here is related to reading, comprehension and fact checking. Surely you can appreciate this considering, “I would think that you would review your lateset article for KOI USA and double check for accuracy and notify the editor if it is good to go or not," Childers wrote.
http://koi-bito.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5132&page=2.
John Hawley

"Standards for koi come from competition, the koi show," Childers wrote.

"Thes are the standards that determined which koi wins. the koi show has its origins in Japan, where they were invented, simple. Get it John? It has nothing to do with the age of a specific club. Koi show competitions existed before the Hawaiian club. and the two are not necessarily related. Try that for literal meanings," Childers wrote.

Back to the quote Steve, "…it is a Japanese hobby to begin with; they invented it, set the rules and standards for it,..." according to Ron. It would seem you discount the fact that Japanese Americans had the first club according to what is gathered here in this thread. Do you likewise discount the possibility that Japanese Americans invented the hobby so far as it is organized in clubs such as AKCA and ZNA? Would you likewise discount the possibility that Japanese Americans "set the rules and standards" for the hobby so far as it is organized in clubs such as AKCA and ZNA?

Hold the personal attacks and answer the questions if you would.

John Hawley

Huh??? Lot of non sequiturs there, I think.

Did someone other than you say there was organizational weakness in the U.S.? I missed it, if so.

AKCA's structure did not copy much of anything from Japan. It is more like the U.S. under the Articles of Confederation. AKCA is not a club. It is an affiliation of clubs. ZNA, Rinyukai, etc are clubs, not federations of clubs.

I'm not aware of anyone posting comments disrespectful of Japanese contributions. I do think your post has a bit of a xenophobic quality to it and some misplaced nationalism, perhaps?

I'm beginning to wonder whether you've started getting on all the boards with these pot-stirring threads because your show's ratings have gotten too low.

MikeM

“AKCA's structure did not copy much of anything from Japan. It is more like the U.S. under the Articles of Confederation. AKCA is not a club. It is an affiliation of clubs. ZNA, Rinyukai, etc are clubs, not federations of clubs,” MikeM wrote.

Really? AKCA did not copy anything from Japan? I appreciate your insight here into the history of the foundation of AKCA, but I suspect much was copied from the Japanese model after that first club was established in Hawaii. If you can share some of the history of how the structure was established I’d appreciate it?

It is xenophobic to try to verify the history of koi hobby and organizational roots? You write that AKCA’s structure did not copy much of anything from Japan, which causes me to remind you what Goforth wrote in, “…it is a Japanese hobby to begin with;they invented it, set the rules and standards for it, and although some may disagree, I for my part feel that it is no longer the same hobby when those rules and standards become changed because we either haven’t learned to, or don’t choose to understand them. For my part, I prefer to remain with the original emphasis placed by the hobby’s creators.”

Verifying the history of those rules and standards seems to me to appeal to the utmost respect and appreciation for the koi hobby’s integrity and significance.

John Hawley

John, much of what constitutes the koi hobby in the West (whether the U.S. or Europe or U.K.) has been imported from Japan, but not the AKCA structure. Perhaps you do not realize how tangled your subjects always become, but I'm thinking it may be willful avoidance of logic. Maybe you should do some reading on a subject before you post on a topic as if you know something about it.

MikeM

Provide some definitive sources on the subject. Provide me any links on the web that document in an official manner the history of AKCA as an organization and detail its organizational structure. Then I'll read them, talk about them on the Koi Club of the Air, write about them, and pose more questions. That would be much more worthwhile than reading arguments claiming I avoid logic and should read before posting on a message board designed for the purpose of interactive communications.

John Hawley

Here are some of the relevent dates listed in Kuroki's Manual to Nishikigoi published in 1981, p271 for the oldest amature koi keepers societies in Japan. Prior to that time all koi organizations were for professional breeders/dealers.

1955 - Nippon Nishigoi Society (Niigata area)
1956 - Western Hiroshima Koi Friends Society (Hiroshima area)
1962 - Oita Airinkai
1965 - Western Hiroshima Koi Friends and Oita Airinkai united and name changed to Western Nippon Airinkai
1965-1966 - Koi Societies from, Chugoku, SHikoku, Kansai, and Kyushu joined WNA.
1968 - WNA changed name to Zen Nippon Airinkai (1968)

Ray Jordan

This may not matter in this discussion but if you look at pg 36 in Masayuki Amano's "Live Jewels" General Survey of Fancy Carp

"Further, during the Meiji era (1874-1875, A.D.) superb carp belonging to the "Sarasa", "Asagi (light yellow), and "Ki-utsuri" (yellow-tinted) were brought into exsistence, some of which were so high-priced as fifty yen at the money value in those days. Seeing that carp breeding bordered on speculation, the Prefecture authorities considered it proper to put a temporary stop to the industry. These mountain villages, however, had no other noticeable means of livelihood and pastime, and so the ban was lifted before long."

While he doesn't mention clubs it is clear that koi keeping was a pastime for them which means it was a hobby back then as well. The fact that some of them went for higher prices then others clearly shows some sort of judging was used to classify them as being worth more then others.

JNorth

Hi Jay,
You are touching on one of my favorite koi topics. The era of koi development in the Niigata area prior to world war I was the Wild Wild West the emerging koi industry. Special and new types of koi sold for huge sums of money. A developing interest in Koi, Koi Shows, and such ransformed some of the early koi breeders into big time businesses. Tales of expensive parties at the end of the fall harvest, koi farmers coming to town with pockets stuffed with cash, feuds, robbery, and sword fights over koi were some of the reasons selling koi were prohibited for a time.

Makes todays trips to niigata seem pretty tame by comparision. Well at least for most of us it is tame.

Ray Jordan

Hi Ray
That would be Jim not Jay

Nancy M.

I believe it was in an old Rinko from the 1980s that I read a reminiscence by an old breeder of a time when the rice farmer-breeders in a village got together with their koi in wooden pails, just showing each other the ones they thought special. I kind of feel it was in the 1920s, but before WWII anyway.

MikeM

My Apologies Jim. I don't know why I typed Jay?

Ray Jordan

Thank you and the others Ray that have pointed out some historical specifics and stories. I'm still hoping MikeM or someone would provide as I'd asked specific information as to the history of how AKCA was organized. He stated it was not of Japanese design and I'm curious if like some member clubs if the hub of this supposed confederacy has any documented history of how AKCA was organized as with the info you have provided from Kuroki's manual?

Troll Alert, Again

Steve (Steve Childers AKCA)

LOFLMAO
Troll Alert

Nancy Morales

Not a problem Ray. Happens all the time

JNorth

KOI USA Editor-In-Chief Alert!
At least we can get your honest opinions here Steve

You provide terrific material even if unrelated to the thread I started. Can you point to any specific printed accounts of AKCA's organizational history? As head of the financial support arm of the organization you surely have access to some of the most complete information about the institution?
As I noted initially upon starting this thread, " (I'll repost responses that are not profane) in relation to the story and developing new ones.

John Hawley